Transcript of CKMS Community Connections for 19 August 2026 with Jim Stewart of the Waterloo Region Health Coalition.

The audio recording is available in the show notes at https://radiowaterloo.ca/ckms-community-connections-for-19-august-2026-with-jim-stewart-of-the-waterloo-region-health-coalition/

This transcript was created by software, annotations and some corrections made by Bob Jonkman.

Theme music by Steven Todd [0m00s]

Bob Jonkman [0m29s] Happy Wednesday, Waterloo Region. My name is Bob Jonkman. You're listening to CKMS Community Connections, a special edition for Wednesday, the 19th of August,2026. On a web conference with me is Jim Stewart from the Waterloo Region Health Coalition. Jim, welcome to CKMS Community Connections. Again.

Jim Stewart [0m49s] Hey, thank you for inviting me. It's a real pleasure to be here, Bob.

 Bob [0m53s] You're with the Waterloo Region Health Coalition, an organization that concerns itself with public health care in Ontario. What is the state of public health care in Ontario?

Jim [1m05s] Oh boy, Bob. I mean, I don't like to be all dim and gloom, but our public health care system is under enormous attack. We've got radical privatization attacking public health care from two fronts in Alberta. And I'd like to talk about that in some detail, if you don't mind. Also here in Ontario, where we're seeing radical privatization starving our hospitals to death. The operational budgets in our hospitals are so extremely reduced that it's forcing people to reconsider their options when it comes to health care.

 Bob [1m44s] What is causing all this? Why this sudden turn from public health care to what amounts to privatization  for profit healthcare.

 Jim [1m53s] Well, I think it's really about a strategy from the United States, actually. Trump's 2025 national security strategy declared that the US plans to use private sector influence to erode Canadian sovereignty. I mean I don't say that lightly, but 90% of the people in Canada fully support a public health care system model. They know that privatization of health care similar to what the United States has is a very very bad idea. Public health care is one of the pillars of our society, but it also brings many advantages to our society, Bob. Not the least being excellent health care. However, right now what we're seeing in Alberta is the introduction of actual two-tier healthcare, American style private health insurance corporations, and the dismantling of the public healthcare system in Alberta. And once it starts in Alberta, we're gonna see it spread across the country. And, as a result, on September the first we are holding what we all a Day of Action.  And that day of action is a rally here in Waterloo at Bardish Chagger's office. She's a liberal MP. And what we're trying to do, not just in Waterloo, but right across the country. So these days of action are happening with liberal MPs all across the country. What we're trying to do is ensure that they stand up for the Canada Health Act, that they enforce the Canada Health Act, which is being completely destroyed in Alberta by this new legislation, which comes into effect on September the first. That's why the day of action is being held on September the first. So at twelve o'clock noon on September the first at 100 Regina Street South in Waterloo at Bardish Chagger's office. Outside her office on the street, we're going to be rallying and speaking about how to protect the Canada 	 Health Act. And we have invited the honorable Bardish Chagger to attend and speak in favor of the Canada Health Act and public health care, which again is a major cornerstone of our society. So we believe that the liberal approach of Canada strong against what's happening in the U.S. has to mean also that we stand up for the Canada Health Act and protect our public health care system.

 Bob [4m49s] I was wondering why you are targeting federal MPs for a health care issue when healthcare is really a provincial responsibility.

 Jim [4m58s] Well, that's an excellent question. The reason why we're targeting the federal MPs is because the Canada Health Act is a federal piece of legislation. The Canada Health Act encompasses how health care is administered all the way across the entire country. And in Alberta in particular, the violations against the Canada Health Act are completely illegal. For instance, the introduction of two tier medicine, the introduction of having physicians charge patients directly for health care services, the imposition of private for-profit health care insurance companies like they have in the United States. This is really the full-on frontal deadly assault on public health care. And the only people that can really stand up to this is the federal government, and of course the federal MPs like Bardish Chagger.

 Bob [5m57s] Right. How does the Canada Health Act integrate with provincial health legislation? I mean delivery of services is certainly a provincial responsibility.  What does the Canada Health Act actually do?

Jim [6m14s] Well, the Canada Health Act sets out a variety of different principles of how health care is delivered across the country, but with respect to the provincial delivery of health care, that is a provincial mandate to deliver health care how they see fit. And in Ontario, what that looks like now is the complete starvation of our public hospitals operating budgets. And as you know, no organization can function without adequate operational dollars. We're talking about the dollars to clean the floors, to ensure there's appropriate infection control to pay the nurses, to pay the physicians, to actually use the services in the hospital like MRIs and surgeries, and to give you a clear example of what's happening with starvation in our hospitals, no money going into our public hospitals, we're seeing ER closures all across the province of Ontario. We're seeing full departments be shut down, like labor and maternity. Can you imagine if you're going to the hospital to deliver a baby and the and the labor and delivery unit is closed? It's just obscene. This has never happened before in the province of Ontario. And we're also seeing now massive layoffs of nurses and other medical technologists and medical workers all across the province of Ontario. And unfortunately, we're also seeing our hospitals going into debt now. So our hospitals have never had to go to private lenders and borrow money to be able to survive, but they're actually having to do that now. And it's all because the province of Ontario is starving them of operational budgets and redirecting over a billion dollars, a billion with a B, a billion dollars into private health insurance corporations across the province, including private for profit clinics and private staffing agencies, et cetera. So you can see the impact of redirecting all this money away from our public health care system, and quite frankly, nobody in Ontario or even in Canada, I think, realize well, they realize what's happening, but they don't understand the implications, like the cost of private health care to themselves as individuals in Canada. How much would a private delivery model like the United States cost?

Bob [8m49s] Yeah. I want to get back to the insurance aspect in just a few minutes. I myself have had some time in local hospitals, aging parents, aging friends, that sort of thing. The thing that struck me the most about coming into a modern hospital today is the huge wall of donors and sponsors. To the tune of millions and millions of dollars to build and possibly operate the hospital. Aside from being very unaesthetic in a hospital setting, I find it quite offensive that people have to pay money. I mean, this is already sounding like two tier healthcare to me, where the rich people can afford to fund the hospitals, but it's not necessarily something that the average citizen can do. You know, the average citizen doesn't have a million dollars to donate to your local hospital. Do you have any commentary on the funding of hospitals?

Jim [9m42s] Yes. Now the funding for the operational funding and for capital funding for hospital repairs or or building new hospitals, for instance, that's all tax driven. That's based on the amount of tax that we all pay to support our public health care system. But what we don't do in the province of Ontario is buy brand new equipment like expensive MRI machines or other types of technologies, software systems, etc. The kind of sweet operational pieces of equipment that people would like to see replaced and improved from time to time. And typically there's organizations in every single hospital going out and asking for people, the community to donate dollars to support that level of effort. And those organizations within the hospitals are quite effective at securing donations, tax credit donations from corporations as well. So that's what you're seeing on the wall.

 Bob [10m44s] So these people are getting a tax break on the donations that they make.

 Jim [10m50s] Yes.

 Bob [10m52s] Okay. So there is another indication of the the polarization of wealth. You know, the the rich get the tax deferrals, whereas those who aren't quite so well off don't have the opportunity to make the donations to get the tax deferrals at all.

 Jim [11:05] Yes, you know, you have to look at it on balance. They're also donating a significant amount of money to buy, for instance, a brand new MRI.

 Bob [11m03s] Right.

 Jim [11m04s] However, I agree with your point. I do believe that we should have adequate funding from the government through our tax base to support the hospital operations completely. And that includes being able to buy new equipment from time to time. But I would like to really focus on  what's happening in Alberta. Because on September the first as Albert introduces this brand new U.S. style privatized health care model, which means that doctors can charge either the public system or they can charge the patients directly for care. And they can charge whatever they want, and it's created a new marketplace for for-profit health insurance like United Healthcare from the United States to go in and deliver that model again in Alberta, but you have to ask yourself, why would we be doing that when Americans themselves despise, hate their own healthcare system because of what it does to people because of how incredibly costly it is to each individual that's unaffordable for Americans. For instance, if I would give you an average for what American's family of four would pay in New York State or Michigan, the two closest states to us, it's two thousand five hundred dollars US every single month. Can you imagine? And it never stops. It's a mortgage, it never goes away. It also only covers about80% of their hospital costs. If someone loved one is having a serious illness, they have to come up with that 20% on their own, which could be incredibly expensive. So you have in the United States medical debt that we don't have here in Canada. And in fact, 60% of all US bankruptcies are directly a result of medical debt. On top of that, every time an American goes to see a doctor or get a lab test, they have to do a co-pay. Co-pays are anywhere from 100 to 50 dollars US for every single lab result and every single visit to the doctor. And on top of that, if anything seriously ever happens to one of your loved ones, and you have to go to the hospital with your insurance that you're paying for. You have to pay also a deductible. So before anything happens, you have to pay anywhere from $4,000 to $16,000 in deductibles before any care takes place. That is not a compassionate equitable health care system. That is not what Canadians want. We want to maintain the pillar of our society, our public health care system. And quite frankly, it's less expensive. It has better outcomes than the American system, and our wait times are just going to go up through the roof with privatization. It's not as if privatization is going to reduce wait times, which is what everybody's saying. I've got a simple solution for wait times, Bob. We have in our hospitals today in Ontario, thirty percent of all of our operating rooms are either underutilized or in many cases closed. We have an operating room in Cambridge right now that does nothing more than store boxes. These are fully functional operating rooms. If they were utilized properly, we could eliminate the entire wait list almost overnight. We're talking about 30% of all the ORs, operating rooms, that were paying to get built for these private corporations, and allowing them to build OH at a 20% premium for exactly the same service, the same surgery offered by the same physicians in these private clinics. That just doesn't make any kind of health policy sense, but it also doesn't help the waitlists. And it also doesn't make any fiscal sense. So it's too expensive, and it's just fundamentally dumb.

 Bob [15m22s] Those operating rooms not being in use, that's just dead capital sitting there, unused equipment that's somebody has already paid for. It's a double whammy, really, in that the way times are increased, and there's equipment that's been...  expensive equipment that's been paid for, possibly through private donations, but possibly through a lot of tax dollars as well, That aren't being utilized. Can I just go back to you said: Two thousand dollars a month for typical medical debt in the US? Is that payments to insurance companies, or are those direct payments to hospitals, doctors, clinics?

Jim [15m52s] Let me be absolutely clear. I said two thousand five hundred a month for health insurance coverage. So driving your car, you have to have insurance, automobile insurance. In the United States, if you want to get health care, you typically have to have health insurance coverage as well. $2,500 every month just for the insurance premium.

 Bob [16m23s] And that's the average, that's not even the top end.

 Jim [16m25s] That's not the top end. That's what's called a gold standard. That's the average cost in those two states, Michigan and New York for a family of four. To be also very clear, many Americans also receive health insurance coverage through their employment. But if your employer doesn't offer a decent health insurance package, or if you don't want your total pay package to go to supporting health insurance, you know, you might be young, you feel like you're never gonna get sick, for instance, or if you want to move from job to job, or for a variety of reasons you don't have health insurance through  your employer. They may not even offer it. Then you have to pay that's the cost.

 Bob [17m08s] We get some of that in Ontario as well. My wife and I were both getting on in age, we both have cataracts, or both have had cataracts. She's covered by her union contract. She got the fancy tests, the fancy tools to have the cataract surgery done. I'm not covered by any sort of union. I had to either pay out of pocket or accept some standard of testing that wasn't quite as fancy as what my wife was able to access. So we're already seeing that two tier level of available service for things like cataract surgery.

Jim [17m29s] Well, let me address that in total. Number one, all medically necessary care in Ontario is covered by OHIP. So any additional testing or any additional fancy measurements that they may be telling you that you need is a pack of lies because the same procedures are occurring in our public health care system as they would in a private clinic. So quite frankly, they're doing this to drive profit. These are for profit private clinics delivering cataract surgeries. The average fee that's now being charged in these for-profit clinics is $4,000 per eye. So if you've got an extra eight thousand dollars you can pay, then you could go to these private clinics, I guess, if you wanted to, but you're not gonna receive a different type of lens, for instance. You're not gonna receive a different kind of surgery, all of the same surgeries, all of the lenses, all the testing, all the drops that are used, all the measurements are exactly the same as you would get in the public hospital. Just you might not wait up to 60 days to get it. And again, what we're seeing in these private clinics, because we researched this, is that they're telling patients that they have to wait up to two years to get the surgery done in a public hospital. That's just not true. You can go to the public hospital, get on their website, and find out what the wait times are for yourself. And on average, it's six.

Bob [19m00s] In the case of the cataract surgery and the fancy tests and and equipment. what's the advantage? My eyes are perfectly well after getting public health funded cataract surgery. My wife's eyes seem to be no better than mine.

Jim [19m13s] Well, there is no advantage. Same surgeon using the same technology with the same lens, delivering it either in a hospital or delivering it in a for-profit private clinic. So you have to ask yourself the simple question. What do you think for profit means in these clinics? It's all profit driven. It's just the way of making money off of health care, and the way the Americans do. We as Canadians don't believe in that. We believe there's like I said at 90% of Canadians believe in a compassionate and equitable health care system. That's our model. That's something we feel proud of. But it's also a terrific driver of our GDP. I don't know if people realize, but our public health care system is the second best driver of GDP growth in the country, beaten only by our real estate. So a lot of the funding that goes into our public hospitals gets reinvested in our communities, it generates well paid jobs across communities, the technology research and innovation that happens as a result of our public health care stays in our country, the tax dollars that are supporting our public health care system is reinvested into our community. Everything we build we own as opposed to a US model, where guess what? All that money goes to profit, goes to somebody who's taking it out of the country, probably some sort of hedge fund in the United States and sitting on it in a bank account in the Caymans. So quite frankly, our health care system not just benefits people by delivering better quality, lower cost health care, but it also benefits our entire society by reinvesting money and making sure that health care is affordable and high quality.

Bob [21m32s] So public health care is a good driver for employment in Canada. Does private health care increase that amount of employment?

Jim [21m41s] No, private health care seeks to increase profits. So you have to ask yourself, if I was a company trying to increase profits in healthcare, how would I get there? Would I cut physicians, staff positions in my clinics? Would I replace highly trained professionals with less well trained people? Would I get rid of certifications, etc? Would I try to speed the surgeries and go as fast as I can so I could get more throughput and get more profit on a daily basis, on a weekly basis, on a yearly basis. That is what private health care looks like.

Bob [22m25s] Right, right.  Can we talk about insurance for a couple of minutes? In the news this morning, I saw that there's some contention in the United States where insurance companies are actually owned by the hospitals that are performing the procedures that the insurance has to pay for. It sounds like a snake eating its own tail. This is a horrible conflict of interest, if you ask me.

Jim [22m52s] Well, it's a capitalistic model where you have a complete linear approach to any kind of corporation where you own everything within the delivery model from the hospitals to the physicians to the health insurance company, to even the pharmaceutical companies and the pharmacies delivering the care, the testing labs, everything owned by one or two companies in the United States, everything controlled by the health insurance corporation, so that even the doctor who's making a decision about what has to happen to his patient on the OR table can be stopped in its tracks by the health insurance company denying any kind of claim. So again, when it comes to profit, what do you think health insurance companies are renowned for? They're renowned for denying claims, not paying for the care that is being delivered, costing the people of the United States thousands upon thousands of dollars every year.

Bob [24m01s] As with any insurance, the amount of the premiums that are being paid have to not only go to the payout of claims, but also have to go to profit. So it is always the case that the amount of money paid out in claims is less than the amount of money collected in premiums. So on average, people are going to end up spending far more money on insurance than they do on the benefits received from that insurance.

Jim [24m29s] Yes, it's a capitalistic model, Bob.  So the priority in health care in the United States, and soon in Alberta, and most likely coming to Ontario. The priority is profit, not health care.

Bob [24m43s]  Right. Is there going to be mandatory insurance in the Alberta healthcare scheme?

Jim [24m50s] They they have created a model that will allow for physicians to charge whatever they want. They've created a model for health insurance companies to be inserted into the province of Alberta to create a marketplace. They're establishing a whole new industry in Alberta. An industry that the American health insurance corporations have coveted for decades. They have looked at Canada and thought to themselves, wow, we can make trillions and upon trillions of dollars from Canadian health care if only they would let us in. And now Alberta under Danielle Smith has opened the door and invited them in. So what we're going to see is very expensive health care and affordable health care is going to go out the window and be replaced by unaffordable private health insurance companies.

Bob [25m49s] And because the American companies already have well established methods of doing this, they're likely to swoop in and deliver the health care for profit.  Deliver the insurance for profit, and all that money ends up leaving Alberta, ends up leaving Canada and going to the pockets of those United States based companies.

Jim [26m09s] That's exactly it. But also health care is very expensive. If you have some person in your family, one of your loved ones gets a serious illness once in their life, as we see in the United States, this can lead to complete bankruptcy. Even with American health insurance. As I said, health insurance only covers about 80% of the total cost. That twenty percent is enormous. It's an enormous bill. Millions of dollars in many cases. So what we're looking at then is choosing between selling every asset you've ever had to pay for health care for your loved one, child, your spouse, etc. That is not a compassionate system. That's greed. That's profit before patients. And we do not accept that in Canada, and certainly not the Waterloo Region Health Coalition.  That's why I'm imploring you to sort of try to help us to get people to come out for one hour on September the first at Bardish Chagger's office at 100 Regina Street South in Waterloo at the Waterloo City Hall, and join us. It's now or never. This is the time if you ever thought to yourself that I want to stand up for our public health care system, I would implore you to come between 12 and one o'clock and let the world know that we do not stand for the destruction of the Canada Health Act. We don't want them, we don't want to let them destroy our public health care system.

Bob [27m46s] That's Tuesday, the first of September at noon at 100 Regina Street, the City of Waterloo City Hall building.

Jim [27m55s] Yes, that's exactly where Bardish Chagger's office is, yes.

Bob [28m00s] Right.  We've seen this coming for a while. I mean, there's been talk about two-tier healthcare in Alberta for a couple of years anyway. How did this just steamroll all over the people protesting?

Jim [28m13s] You know, I think that people in Canada believe in our public health care system, and they also believe that nothing would ever harm our public health care system, but it's like that old Joni Mitchell song, you don't know what you got until it's gone. And quite frankly, this is what's occurred, you know, the right wing in the province of Alberta is being well funded, many of them by forces from outside the province, and theirs is just a philosophical band under the Danielle Smith regime to sort of destroy the public good and replace it with a private delivery model. And it's just a philosophy, and that's what they think. We don't think that way.

Bob [28m55s] Yeah. How does that parallel what's happening in Ontario today?

Jim [28m59] Well, we haven't seen the introduction of this particular model yet, this two tier system. This allowing doctors to opt in and opt out of a public or private system based on how they feel. You know, basically what that does is allows doctors to create a sort of an enrollment of patients that would be happy to pay them directly, and then they can leave the public system, leaving everybody else in the lurch. So we haven't seen that yet, but we have seen the introduction of private for-profit clinics, cataracts, and now sixty-one new private clinics will be created in Ontario this year, delivering hips and knees, et cetera. And if the model continues the way it has with cataracts, we're looking at anywhere from 15 to 20,000 for a hip or knee in Ontario. And so again, it's already getting incredibly expensive, not as expensive as it is in the United States, but it will get there as soon as the market is developed, has been created. These health insurance companies look to Ontario and Alberta as nothing more than green field opportunities. That's a business term, really a sophisticated sort of approach to establishing a brand new market somewhere where it hasn't happened before. That's what they want to do in Ontario, and we're seeing this being assisted by the Ford administration here in the province of Ontario through the strangulation of the operational budgets in healthcare. Now, the Ford government says that they're spending more money than ever on health care. But what are they spending the money on? Well, number one, they've got to spend more money because our population increases our population's also getting a lot older. So the complexity of care is there. But they're spending all their money on privatized delivery models, as I said, a billion dollars a year going to private clinics and private corporations. And they're also spending a lot of money on capital budget. So building new hospitals or renovating hospitals, and that really benefits their friends in the construction industry. We're talking about the operational budgets, the money that goes to pay for surgeries, the money that goes to pay for cleaning and taking care of the hospitals, the money that goes to pay all of the staff in the hospitals. That is what we're seeing being strangled. So they're killing our public hospitals in Ontario through the strangulation of the operational budget, and at the same time they're telling everybody in Ontario that they're spending more money on health care than they've ever spent ever before. Those two things can't exist and have a fully functional health care system.

Bob [32m00s] Is this strictly a conservative, a right wing government initiative?

Jim [32m05s] Yes, it is.

Bob [32m06s] Because we have a number of other Conservative governments in Canada. Do you see this spreading to other provinces as well?

Jim [32m15s] Well, yes! The government in Saskatchewan has already suggested and already made statements that if they're gonna watch what's happening in Alberta, and if it's successful, they're going to follow suit.  In other words, they want to do exactly the same thing.

Bob [32m30s] In those provinces that don't have conservative governments, Manitoba, British Columbia, has there been any rumblings of privatization in the healthcare system?

Jim [32m42s] No, we're seeing a pushback against privatization in British Columbia, for instance, there was a famous case called the Cambie case, where there was a surgeon who was double dipping, so he was charging patients in his surgical clinic, a private surgical clinic in Vancouver. He was charging patients and then billing the BC health care system directly, making millions of dollars in profit. And he said that it was a constitutional right to be able to do this. So it went all the way to the BC Supreme Court, and it was then went to the Canadian Supreme Court, and all the courts that looked at this struck it down. One of his clear messages was that if he had the ability to deliver private care in British Columbia, that wait lists would go down. But all of the evidence in the court proceedings from all of the experts said it was the exact opposite, that he was actually driving wait lists up because only the rich, the healthy, and the wealthy were being treated in these private clinics, and everybody else had to wait much longer. And as a result, the Cambie case was struck down.  So BC has fought extremely well against privatization.

Bob [34m06s] That's good to hear. So in order to prevent this from happening in Ontario, we really need to have a non-conservative government at the helm.

Jim [34m16s] Or we need to change Doug Ford's polling numbers and let him know that the majority of people across the province are completely against the destruction and dismantling of our public health care system. They want our public health care system to be funded properly, and they want it to sort of operate in a seamless fashion, the way it used to do. And we're asking ourselves why are we redirecting all of this public money into private clinics and asking the poor government to stop that.

Bob [34m50s] What are the teeth in the Canada Health Act that could shut this down?

Jim [34m55s] Well, one of the sections of the Canada Health Act talks about universal access to health insurance. In other words, all people in the country are covered by the Canada Health Act and by public health insurance, as a result, not private profit health insurance. So it's a complete distinction there. But also accessibility, in other words, if you can't afford to spend $10,000 for a new hip or $15,000 for a new knee in Alberta, then you should still be able to get it through the public system. But as you can see, as those opportunities become less and less because of the introduction of private care, that accessibility also goes away. So there's a variety of sections across the Canada Health Act that the Alberta Law Bill 11 is complete violation of. And that's one of the reasons why we're asking people like MP Bardish Chagger to stand up and enforce the Canada Health Act and ensure that Canada Strong actually means something that Canada Strong Liberal philosophy means that we can have our compassionate and equitable health care system back.

Bob [36m13s] I would have thought that if there are regulations in the Canada Health Act that require universal access to health care, that legislation like what's been introduced in Alberta would just not be possible.  That would be illegal, essentially at a federal level.

Jim [36m29s] That's exactly the point, Bob. It is illegal. And we're asking the federal government to stand up. Now the federal government is under enormous pressure from the Trump administration right now. We're looking at tariffs, we're looking at all types of pressures on our economy. But nevertheless, even though we, you know. have real sympathy for the Liberal government doing its very best to protect Canada, and I think they're doing a good job. The universality criteria in section 10 on the Canada Health Act, the accessibility criteria in section 12 of the Canada Health Act, the comprehensiveness criterion, section nine of the Canada Health Act, the extra billing and user charges, sections eighteen and nineteen, all of these are being violated by Bill 11 in Alberta. So coming out and saying something mealy mouthed, like we don't see why this would be consistent with the Canada Health Act is not enough. We need the federal government to take a hard stand, and what that could look like is restricting the Canada Health transfers from the federal government to the province of Alberta and to ensure those millions and millions of dollars that are transferred aren't going into private for profit health care.

Bob [37m50s] I have a feeling that there's probably some regulation as well that would not allow the federal government to arbitrarily stop the transfers of funds for health care to a province.  I suspect there's some constitutional issue that prevents that from taking place.

Jim [38m08s] Well, quite frankly the government of Canada has been able to do that in the past, has been able to change the Canada Health transfers in the past, increasing them, decreasing them, so the federal government has a lot of power. They can exert that power, and they should exert that power, and this is why our Day of Action on September first is so important, that we get people on the street asking for the enforcement of the Canada Health Act.

Bob [38m30s] The protests that are taking place certainly make me feel like I'm doing something. You've had protests before, there have been other days of action.  How effective has the work of the health coalition been in changing the existing system at the Ontario provincial health care level.

Jim [38m51s] Well, all I can say that that is that yes, you're right, we've been very active at fighting against privatization. We know the polling numbers in Ontario show that Ontario has the least support for privatized health care of any of the provinces, so I think we're doing a pretty good job in getting our message out there, but you have to ask yourself a question if we just sit by with our eyes closed, our ears closed, and our mouth shut. What do you think would happen to our public health care system without people like the Ontario Health Coalition standing up for our public health care system, the countervailing messages that are in direct conflict with what the Ford administration is saying go away. You know, we leave the nurses to fight for themselves only. But what we really need is a groundswell of political change, and the government of Ontario has to realize that there will be a political cost to what they're doing here, that the people of Ontario are not gonna stand by idly and watch the destruction of something they've built for the last fifty years almost, and something that they cherish. I mean, destroying public education and destroying public health care seem to be the two main focal points of the Ford administration. And I think people are becoming aware of this now. However, we can't wait any longer, Bob. As I said, you don't know what you've got until it's gone. I don't want our public health care system to be gone.

Bob [40m29s]  Right. So the good news is that the Ford government also has a reputation of retracting things that they have promised to implement. I think one of the latest being the Toronto Island Airport jet facilities are no longer on tap. Doug Ford's private plane that's publicly funded is no longer a thing. So the government does know when to step back with sufficient public pressure.

Jim [40m57s] Well, and I think this is what we need to have happen. So again, that's why I would urge people to show up on September the first at noon.

Bob [41m05s] Right.  Are there any other protests targeted at the provincial governments in either Alberta or Ontario?

Jim [41m12s] Well, yes, we're not taking our foot off the pedal here. We feel like this is a do-or-die situation. We either save our public health care system or we do not. So yes, we are planning a variety of other protests and demonstrations, and we have a very extensive social media campaign happening at Waterloo Region Health Coalition. Please, you know, feel free to go to our website, Waterloo Region Healthcare, we're on Twitter, we're on Facebook, and a variety of other platforms. So please, I'd like to ask your audience to support us there by re-sharing our posts as well. It helps the algorithm to get our information out across the province. And basically what we're trying to do is we're trying to reach people who aren't overly concerned about health care right now because they may be young and healthy, or they haven't needed any health care, but these issues do arise in everybody's life, and we do need your support and help in protecting our public health care system.

Bob [42m23s] We'll certainly have all of the Waterloo Region Health Coalition addresses, social media addresses on our Radio Waterloo website. You can go to https://radiowaterloo.ca/ccc/ and it'll have the most recent episodes up there, including this one, hopefully in a few days, and well in time before the actual protest takes place on September the first.  Once the protests are over and done, and health care,  privatized health care has been installed in Alberta, is there an Alberta health coalition?

Jim [42m56s] Yes, it's called Friends of Medicare in Alberta.  And they are launching protests in Alberta. We are launching protests all the way across the country. There's quite a few of them, and you may have seen one of our posters on our website indicating where all of the protests are, but they're all happening on September first because that's the date that Danielle Smith is implementing two tier health care in Alberta. This is actual legislation. It was passed back in November, and September first is the start date for their two-tier health care.

Bob [43m46] Right. What's the potential for reversal? Now that it's become law, it's entrenched in law.

Jim [43m51s] It's always a very high potential for reversal.  It takes a different government with a different mindset to reenact a different law supporting public health care and replace the private Bill 11 in Alberta with something better.

Bob [44m07s] Right. So you're thinking that that requires a change in government in Alberta for that to happen.

Jim [44m12s] Or a change in the mindset of the politicians in Alberta. I think Alberta decides that they're not gonna tolerate an American style health care system with all its costs and its poor outcomes, then it'll change. It's up to the people to still drive democracy.

Bob [44m33s] Right. There'll be some by-elections coming up across Canada federally, and I'm sure there will be by-elections provincially, both in Alberta and in Ontario.  Seems to me that would be a good time to push on the health care as an election issue.

Jim [44m52s] Yes, absolutely. We will do our level best to ensure it's front and center. That people are aware of what's happening to health care across the country, but also in Ontario, and we'll do our very best to ensure that people remember who stood up for public health care. So we have asked Bardish Chagger again to come and address the crowd in support of the Canada Health Act. And if she decides not to do that, I think many of us will have a very long memory of that. I don't think how that will bode well for her in the coming elections.

Bob [45m31s] There's a very big issue of optics here. Whether or not the federal government intends to step in, they should at least look like they're stepping in. Because not stepping in and not going and participating in this protest, not speaking at this protest is a very strong indication that the federal government is on the wrong track as well.

Jim [45m55s] Yes. Now again, I understand that the federal government is under enormous pressure right now from the Trump adminstration, but we simply can't allow ourselves to see the demise of our public health care system in Canada without fighting as much as we can for it.

Bob [45m53s] We have a municipal election all over Ontario and here in Waterloo Region as well. Is this at all an issue for municipal politics?

Jim [46m01s] I think that municipal politicians can have a very powerful voice when it comes to public health care. But the mandate for public health care is really within the province. And so it's really the Ford administration dictating how health care is delivered across our province, not the municipalities.

Bob [46m28s] In Waterloo Region we've seen some consolidation of the different hospitals: St. Mary's Hospital, and Grand River Hospital, and the Freeport site of Grand River Hospital have amalgamated. And a new hospital is being built at the north end of Waterloo. So that all requires municipal permits, municipal participation in making that happen. You can certainly let the politicians who are up for election or reelection know that health care is a local issue as well.

Jim [46m59s] Yes, absolutely.  Those are excellent points, but what we understand is that St. Mary's Hospital will be demolished, and that the Grand River Hospital will be turned into nothing more than an urgent care center. And that there is a promise to have more beds, more fully funded beds in the new hospital, but we have seen those types of promises across the province before. So we are very careful in our the points that we're making about the development of the new hospital. Nevertheless, we want to ensure that we have more beds. That we have much better access to health care. And that destroying two hospitals and replacing them with one makes sense.

Bob [47m41] There needs to be a justification for that from a healthcare perspective, not just a financial perspective.

Jim [47m48s] Yeah, here's the thing.  And I did go to a meeting regarding this new P3 build of this hospital, which is a Public-Private Partnership model for the building of this hospital. And sure, they're gonna get capital funding for this hospital, but again, the critical factor for the actual delivery of health care is the operational budgets. The people in the hospital doing the work. You can build you know a very beautiful hospital, but at the end of the day, you don't have adequate resources in terms of people delivering care, what you end up with is a really nice building with fancy furniture.

Bob [48m40s] Storage rooms where the operating rooms used to be.

Jim [48m44s] Yeah. Let's make sure that all the operational rooms and the new hospital are fully funded. And that we have more OR capability than we currently have. With the thirty percent, we have seven operating rooms across the region right now that are underutilized.

Bob [49m02s] Right.  I'm going to encourage people to participate in the protests at 100 Regina Street on the September the first, once again. But people may want to get more involved than just protesting on the street. Are there openings within the Water Region Health Coalition for people to get more involved?

Jim [49m20s] Yes. We are a volunteer driven organization. Nobody gets paid a penny. We're all volunteers in support of public health care. Please join us. We have monthly meetings starting in September going forward. And come in and get involved. And I'm sure we can provide a variety of more up to date information and opportunities for people to support us in protecting public health care in Ontario.

Bob [49m50s] Can you go over the contact information for the Waterloo Region Health Coalition?

Jim [49m53s] Yes. It's really quite simple. Waterloo Region Health Coalition. You can go directly to our website and join the Waterloo Regional Health Coalition from that one spot. Send us an e-mail at waterlooregionhealthcoalition@gmail.com

Bob [50m08s] And there's a mailing list where people can stay up to date on all the events happening in Waterloo Region. And there's an Ontario Health Coalition as well that also has a mailing list giving you information across the entire province of actions that are taking place.

Jim [50m18s] Correct.  So you can join the Ontario Health Coalition, the enjoy the Waterloo Region Health Coalition, or if you live in London, for instance, there's a London Health Coalition as well.  So we have health coalitions all across the province. There are many thousands of people involved in trying to support and protect public health care. But again, we are volunteers. We don't have the kind of money, or the bully pulpit of the Ford administration, so when Doug Ford comes out and says they're spending more money on health care than they've ever spent before, that may be true, but it's not the full picture. The full picture is what's happening to operational budgets in public hospitals today.

Bob [51m11s] Right. Tuesday September the first outside of Bardish Chagger's office, 100 Regina Street. Noon, for an hour's protest. Hopefully we'll hear Bardish Chagger speak on the issue about privatization of health care across Canada. Put the Canada Health Act to work.

Jim [51m30s] Thank you, Bob.

Bob [51m31] You're welcome, Jim. We're speaking with Jim Stewart from the Waterloo Region Health Coalition on our repeat visit to CKMS Community Connections. My name is Bob Jonkman, CKMS Community Connections airs on Mondays at 3:00pm. This is a special edition for Wednesday, August the 19th. I'll be back on Monday.

End [50m41s]